2019.10.10 鲁迪-朱利安尼的维也纳之旅之谜

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The Mystery of Rudy Giuliani’s Vienna Trip
President Trump’s personal lawyer told me he was planning to fly to Vienna roughly 24 hours after his business associates were arrested as they prepared to do the same.

By Elaina Plott

Shannon Stapleton / Reuters
OCTOBER 10, 2019
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Last night, when Rudy Giuliani told me he couldn’t get together for an interview, his reason made sense: As with many nights of late, he was due to appear on Hannity. When I suggested this evening instead, his response was a bit more curious. We would have to aim for lunch, Giuliani told me, because he was planning to fly to Vienna, Austria, at night. He didn’t offer any details beyond that.

Giuliani called me at 6:22 p.m. last night—around the same time that two of his associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, were arrested at Dulles Airport while waiting to board an international flight with one-way tickets. As The Wall Street Journal reported this afternoon, the two men were bound for Vienna. The Florida businessmen, who are reported to have assisted Giuliani in his alleged efforts to investigate Joe Biden and his family ahead of the 2020 election, were charged with campaign-finance violations, with prosecutors alleging that they had conspired to funnel money from a Russian donor into Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.



But Giuliani, when confirming today that Parnas and Fruman were heading to Vienna on matters “related to their business,” told the Journal that he himself only had plans to meet with them when they returned to Washington. By this logic, Giuliani was also planning to fly to Vienna within roughly 24 hours of his business associates, but do no business with them while all three were there.

This morning, Giuliani told me he’d have to reschedule our lunch. I’ve tried to reach him since then, to discuss Parnas’s and Fruman’s arrests, among other things, to no avail. When I called at 3 p.m. ET to ask about his Vienna trip, a woman claiming to be his communications director answered the phone. I have called him more than 100 times over the past year, and this is the first time that has ever happened. She said she’d have to get back to me. As we spoke, I could hear a voice that resembled Giuliani’s shout “asshole” in the background. “Oh, sorry,” the woman told me. “He was talking to the TV.”

Why were Parnas and Fruman bound for Vienna? Why was Giuliani—if what he told me was true—planning to be in the same city a day later?

Giuliani finally sent me a text message at 4:18 p.m. ET: “I can’t comment on it at this time.”



Read: Rudy Giuliani: ‘You should be happy for your country that I uncovered this’

Parnas and Fruman, both Soviet-born, have been instrumental in helping Giuliani develop Ukrainian contacts in his quest to prove that Biden, while vice president, tried to curtail an investigation into a Ukrainian gas company for which his son Hunter Biden served on the board. Parnas told NPR, for example, that he was the one who had arranged a Skype call between Giuliani and former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin to discuss their corruption theory. Parnas was also present at meetings in New York and Warsaw earlier this year with Giuliani and Yuriy Lutsenko, another former prosecutor general for Ukraine.

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I met Parnas and Fruman in March, when I joined Giuliani at Shelly’s Back Room, a cigar bar in D.C., to discuss Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s soon-to-be-released report on Russian interference in the 2016 election. Sipping back-to-back glasses of Macallan—double, one large ice cube—and smoking a Nicaraguan cigar, Giuliani told me he’d known Parnas for two years. Parnas laughed and said he’d grown up “idolizing” Giuliani. They bantered about how the Mueller probe would likely amount to nothing, with Parnas adding that it was Trump’s “constitutional right” to fire former FBI Director James Comey. Save for introducing himself when I arrived, Fruman was quiet. Parnas told me they were all “great friends” and all “work together.”

Along with allegedly using a shell company to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to Republican candidates and a pro-Trump super PAC, Parnas and Fruman were also accused by federal prosectors of meddling in American political activities on behalf of one or more Ukrainian officials. In the 21-page indictment, prosecutors allege that Parnas and Fruman lobbied for the removal of the U.S. ambassador in Kiev, Marie Yovanovitch—something Giuliani sought as well, arguing that she was biased against the president. In May, Trump ordered Yovanovitch’s removal.

The White House has kept mum about the arrests. Jay Sekulow, Trump’s personal lawyer alongside Giuliani, told reporters that neither Trump nor his campaign has “anything to do with the scheme these guys were involved in.”


It’s difficult to know, however, precisely what Trump may or may not know about Parnas and Fruman, given that Giuliani and Trump are in constant contact and that Giuliani, at least broadly, has frequently kept Trump updated on his maneuverings in Ukraine. Presumably these are the kinds of questions that House Democrats had in mind when they subpoenaed Giuliani last month, and Parnas and Fruman today. Giuliani has said he refuses to testify or provide documents to the House Intelligence Committee. Parnas and Fruman, for their part, are being held in a Virginia jail on a $1 million bond each.

Trump is already seeking to distance himself from the controversy. “I don’t know those gentlemen,” the president told reporters before departing for a rally in Minnesota. “Now, it’s possible I have a picture with them, because I have a picture with everybody.” (He does, in fact, have a picture with Parnas.)

“Maybe they were clients of Rudy,” Trump added. “You’d have to ask Rudy.”

Elaina Plott is a former staff writer at The Atlantic, where she covered the White House.



鲁迪-朱利安尼的维也纳之旅之谜
特朗普总统的私人律师告诉我，他计划在他的商业伙伴被逮捕后大约24小时内飞往维也纳，因为他们也准备这样做。

埃莱娜-普洛特报道

Shannon Stapleton / 路透社
2019年10月10日
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昨晚，当鲁迪-朱利安尼告诉我他无法聚在一起接受采访时，他的理由很合理。就像最近的许多夜晚一样，他应该出现在汉尼提节目中。当我建议用今天晚上来代替时，他的回答就有点让人好奇了。朱利安尼告诉我，我们必须以午餐为目标，因为他计划在晚上飞往奥地利维也纳。除此之外，他没有提供任何细节。

朱利安尼昨晚6点22分给我打电话--大约在同一时间，他的两名同伙Lev Parnas和Igor Fruman在杜勒斯机场用单程票等待登机时被捕。正如《华尔街日报》今天下午报道的那样，这两个人是去维也纳的。据报道，这两名佛罗里达州的商人曾协助朱利安尼在2020年大选前调查乔-拜登及其家人，他们被指控违反竞选财务规定，检察官指控他们合谋将一名俄罗斯捐助者的资金注入唐纳德-特朗普的总统竞选。



但朱利安尼今天在确认帕尔纳斯和弗鲁曼正前往维也纳处理 "与他们的业务有关 "的事务时，告诉《日报》，他本人只计划在他们返回华盛顿时与他们会面。按照这种逻辑，朱利安尼也计划在他的商业伙伴的大约24小时内飞往维也纳，但在三人都在那里的时候不与他们做生意。

今天早上，朱利安尼告诉我他不得不重新安排我们的午餐。此后我一直试图联系他，讨论帕纳斯和弗鲁曼的被捕等问题，但没有结果。当我在美东时间下午3点打电话询问他的维也纳之行时，一个自称是他的通讯主管的女人接的电话。在过去一年中，我给他打了100多次电话，这是第一次发生这种情况。她说她必须给我回电。我们说话时，我听到背景中传来一个类似朱利安尼喊 "混蛋 "的声音。"哦，对不起，"那女人告诉我。"他在跟电视说话。"

为什么帕纳斯和弗鲁曼要去维也纳？为什么朱利安尼--如果他告诉我的是真的--计划在一天后出现在同一个城市？

朱利安尼终于在美东时间下午4点18分给我发了一条短信："我现在不能对此发表评论。"



请看。鲁迪-朱利安尼："你应该为你的国家感到高兴，因为我揭发了这件事

帕纳斯和弗鲁曼都是苏联出生，他们在帮助朱利安尼发展乌克兰关系方面发挥了作用，以证明拜登在担任副总统期间试图阻止对一家乌克兰天然气公司的调查，而他的儿子亨特-拜登在该公司的董事会任职。例如，帕纳斯告诉全国公共广播电台，是他安排朱利安尼和乌克兰前总检察长维克多-肖金通过Skype通话，讨论他们的腐败理论。帕纳斯还出席了今年早些时候在纽约和华沙与朱利安尼和另一位乌克兰前总检察长尤里-卢岑科的会议。

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我是在3月份认识帕纳斯和弗鲁曼的，当时我和朱利安尼一起在华盛顿特区的雪茄酒吧Shelly's Back Room讨论特别顾问罗伯特-穆勒即将发布的关于俄罗斯干预2016年选举的报告。朱利安尼喝着背靠背的麦卡伦酒--双份，一个大冰块--并抽着尼加拉瓜雪茄，他告诉我他认识帕纳斯两年了。帕纳斯笑着说，他是以朱利安尼为 "偶像 "长大的。他们讨论了穆勒调查如何可能一无所获，帕纳斯补充说，解雇前联邦调查局局长詹姆斯-科米是特朗普的 "宪法权利"。除了在我到达时做了自我介绍外，弗鲁曼很安静。帕纳斯告诉我，他们都是 "很好的朋友"，都 "一起工作"。

除了涉嫌利用一家空壳公司向共和党候选人和一个亲特朗普的超级PAC捐赠数十万美元外，帕纳斯和弗鲁曼还被联邦检察官指控代表一名或多名乌克兰官员干预美国政治活动。在21页的起诉书中，检察官指控帕纳斯和弗鲁曼游说解除美国驻基辅大使玛丽-约瓦诺维奇的职务--这也是朱利安尼寻求的，认为她对总统有偏见。5月，特朗普下令解除约瓦诺维奇的职务。

白宫对逮捕一事一直保持沉默。与朱利安尼一起担任特朗普私人律师的杰伊-塞库洛告诉记者，特朗普和他的竞选团队都没有 "与这些人参与的计划有任何关系。"


然而，鉴于朱利安尼和特朗普一直保持着联系，而且朱利安尼至少在广义上经常向特朗普通报他在乌克兰的操纵情况，因此很难确切知道特朗普可能或可能不知道帕纳斯和弗鲁曼的情况。据推测，众议院民主党人上个月传唤朱利安尼以及今天传唤帕纳斯和弗鲁曼时，想到的就是这些问题。朱利安尼表示，他拒绝向众议院情报委员会作证或提供文件。帕纳斯和弗鲁曼则被关押在弗吉尼亚州的一所监狱，每人有100万美元的保释金。

特朗普已经在寻求与这场争论保持距离。"我不认识这些先生，"总统在出发前往明尼苏达州的集会前告诉记者。"现在，我有可能和他们合影，因为我和每个人都有合影。" (事实上，他确实有一张与帕纳斯的合影）。

"也许他们是鲁迪的客户，"特朗普补充说。"你得去问鲁迪。"

Elaina Plott是《大西洋月刊》的前职员作家，她在那里报道白宫。